See how this translates to this thread: Jeremiah's knee-jerk reaction is that anyone who doesn't find his nonsensical, grammatically incorrect, vulgar posts logical is homophobic. He has no understanding of nuance or shading. He might be able to tell you what happened in the story, but any meaning that Hinton put in there flew over his head.
You are seriously going to contend that Jeremiah is the ideal reader? Amanda wrote: "If readers are unable to come to their own conclusions and are supposed to just listen to what the author says outside of the text, how is that engaging with the text? Engaging with the text is coming to your own conclusions about certain aspects of it. You respond to what the author says, you don't interpret it to mean what you want.
For example, from the first time I read it as a teenager, I've never bought into the idea that Dally "died a hero". This is why I say you can agree, disagree, or remain indifferent to the story. However, you do not create it. You are not the creator. That story isn't yours. Making it yours interpreting it generally means adding your biases, prejudices and pet hatreds into the mix.
Oct 19, PM. Who gives a shit what the author says? If this were written for a grade, could she take back what she said or add more context to it after she was graded? I see you like Harry Potter, I do too. Had JK Rowling not mentioned that Dumbledore was gay, would those who thought we was straight been wrong anyways?
Of course not. However, I feel that if the Word of God in this case, the author actually firmly comes out when questioned and says that what they wrote is neither open to interpretation or speculation and they, the person who wrote the book, puts their pen down and says that we the reader are wrong to see it as such I'm going to go with that. You are wrong if you say these two characters are actually gay in the book. The author was a teenager in the not-gay-friendly 's when she wrote the book.
She definitely was not intentionally writing the characters as gay and if they came across that way, it was by accident. Perhaps because a groups of mostly teenage boys was written by a teenage girl. She was asked if the characters are gay and she said no. She didn't say it was "up to you the reader" or "it was implied", or "it could be interpreted that way". It was an outright "no".
Like wow what a mess. But okay, look at me, doing it too though I literally have no plans to write more than this comment. So Mickey, here is the thing, I have not read the Outsiders, like at all. I watched the movie once, in like elementary school maybe, idk, a really long time ago. I started reading this thread only from where Amanda got involved, so I legit have no clue what Jeremiah or whatever has claimed.
I have heard you like correcting grammar, so have fun, idc. I do not have the energy to write out an academic text for you, so this is what you get. And like maybe Dally did have sexual feelings for Johnny, maybe they were just romantic, or maybe they were platonic, literally that does not matter to me. But please stop asking for evidence of a sexual relationship, like there does not need to be a sexual relationship, or even sexual feelings on either parties part, for it to be super gay.
Like for real, it is super super homophobic to reduce a gay relationship canon or not to sexual feelings. So just, stop. Like literally Amanda and it seems like Jeremiah never once argued that Dally and Johnny were actually having sex, just that Dally might have wanted too. And also nobody here, or at least Amanda isn't, is arguing that Dally def had feelings for Johnny, just that the text leaves it ambiguous.
Again, I've never read it, so who knows what I would see in the text. But if so many people clearly see evidence that Dally might have had gay feelings for Johnny, then maybe, you might want to consider, they see something you don't??? Like they aren't saying you are wrong for not seeing it, you are saying they are wrong for seeing it, so yeah. I really don't care what the author said. Like tbh, I write. And if I wrote something that someone took and started shipping characters that I definitely did not intend to be shipped together I would be?????
But like, if they see it, I would let it happen unless it was super problematic, like incest, or abusive, or pedophilia, then I would have a problem but that is a completely different argument to be had [which hopefully you do not want to argue]. Once you put you're art out there, people are going to interpret it how they want, that is just a fact. So the author saying it didn't happen literally means nothing to me lol, if there is nothing in the book explicitly disproving it, and there is something in there that supports it which I'm [not] sorry, if so many people see it, there has to be something there , then let people interpret it how they want.
From everything I've seen, you are completely justified in believing that Dally has no gay feelings towards Johnny. In the book it seems like there is nothing that explicitly states that he does have gay feelings, neither romantic nor sexual, towards Johnny. So you and the many other people who don't see anything there, you are valid.
Because feelings are just that, feelings. But whatever, I know spending my time on this was a waste. You likely completely disregarded everything I said after I said I haven't read the book. Even though, tbh I think that makes me slightly more objective, I can come here and say if you see evidence for it, you can believe it. And I am also pretty sure you are going to hold onto that one tweet by the author, you are going to continue in your believe that the author is almighty.
And that is fine, I literally don't care what you do. If I was not clear on anything I said, that is on me, but literally don't bother asking for clarification. Also, again, I'm going to be super childish and just post this one massive post and probs will never comment or respond again this is the first time I've even been on this website in like a year, and I'm not in the habit of debating the same topic with the same people for more than a day [let alone years lol].
So because I don't plan on responding, I'm going to end on something that I'm sure will spark even more drama. I stopped taking you seriously the second I went on your profile and read that one of your favorite literary heroes is Severus Snape. Like if she stops replying it is just because she is a better person than both of us and actually has more important things to do with her life than get involved in debates on Goodreads, not because you stumped her.
If she chooses to keep commenting, that is her choice. Bye lol. Mickey wrote: "Amanda wrote: "You seem to be the one focusing on sexualizing the relationships. Exactly how many "valid" sexual relationships are there in The Outsiders? Because the rest of the paragraph explains why I said that, that sex and romance are not the same thing. I've given you textual evidence for Dally and Johnny. Just because you personally do not agree with an interpretation does not mean that that interpretation is invalid.
That is the main takeaway you should be getting from this thread. You are allowed to believe that all of the Greasers are straight if you want to. But that doesn't mean you can just say that anyone else who disagrees with you is wrong because you don't like it. Amanda wrote: "You seem to be the one focusing on sexualizing the relationships.
Any others? What textual evidence shows that they are sexual? I ask because you say that textual evidence is what makes these valid, so I imagine that you have these at your disposal.
Mickey wrote: "How exactly does Cherry telling Ponyboy that she hopes she never sees Dally again because she is afraid that she'll fall in love with him proof that Dally had sexual feelings for Johnny? That makes no sense. So I'm going to spell it out for you.
When thinking about what Cherry said, Ponyboy remarks that Dally "could never love Cherry Valance back. It would be a miracle if Dally loved anything.
Flash forward to the end of the novel, when Dally is about to commit suicide. Ponyboy thinks, "Johnny was the only thing Dally loved. And now Johnny was gone. Amanda wrote: "As for evidence to support the claim that Dally was queer, there's the fact that he is repeatedly described by Ponyboy as tough and strong, that he could handle anything. Yet he is completely emotionally distraught when Johnny dies, to the point where he feels as though he no longer has anything left to live for.
All of the Greasers grieve Johnny's death but Dally is the only one who took it to this point. Ponyboy at the beginning of the novel says it'd be a miracle if Dally loved anyone when discussing how Cherry could fall in love with him, and then that is contradicted at the end when he says that Johnny was the only person that Dally loved.
Yes, this could be brotherly love, but I would argue that it is not considering it is contrasted in the context of talking about Cherry as a romantic interest for Dally.
There is much more but I don't want to waste my time here when you're obviously never going to agree with me. I've already shared studies about the increased risk for suicide for people who have lost others they did not have a romantic relationship with parents or children.
This also isn't proof of a sexual relationship. So there's no textual evidence that anyone has brought forth. This is precisely what the author asked for when the question came up on Twitter something like 'Where in the text are you getting this?
The answer was something about how she the questioner thought it would be cute. That's shipping. That's not an interpretation with any validity. Nor is the idea that "it must be true because others literary theorists have written about it". Amanda wrote: "I find this funny because you tend to simply ignore pieces of my responses and Jeremiah's , yet you re-ask a piece of yours.
Although I do not plan to follow you around and call you a bitch and a hoe [sic] like Jeremiah does when someone won't answer his question. You didn't answer it, so I just copied and pasted it. I imagine that's what happens when there is too much content in posts-things get lost easier.
Mickey is legitimately trying to rile people up who hold differing opinions from her own. Mickey wrote: "How many gay couples are you saying there were in The Outsiders? What relationships if any would it not be valid to say were sexual? Is it valid to say Darry was gay for Ponyboy? Darry for Sodapo But I already did address this - shipping is not the same thing.
Darry, Sodapop, and Ponyboy are all literal blood-related brothers. I do not see any textual evidence that they had any romantic feelings toward one another. This has nothing to do with my position on Dally, though, which is what my argument is all about. The ways in which the Curtis brothers treat each other compared to how Dally treated Johnny are different.
However, if someone could provide some textual evidence that there was some sort of romantic side to the Curtis brothers' relationship which again, I do not believe exists , I could consider that a valid interpretation, even though I do not personally agree with it. It is not true that I would say any interpretation of a sexual relationship between any characters is valid; that depends on the existence of textual evidence. How many gay couples are you saying there were in The Outsiders?
Darry for Sodapop? Isn't it true that you would say any interpretation of a sexual relationship between any characters was valid? If not, what is the factor that goes into determining validity? I'd like an answer to this as the answer will change how I proceed. I want clarity on your position.
Amanda wrote: "Side note, your claim that I'm throwing a tantrum is hardly the case - you've been wasting your time on this thread for five years, I've been here for a day. Re-examine your priorities. I was talking about Jeremiah who was throwing a fit. Oct 19, AM. When Johnny kills Bob, Ponyboy had to go intohiding. Johnny and Ponyboy had to take care of themselveswithout the help of the older boys in the gang.
This required Ponyboy to mature and that's when he "Lost hisinnocence. Saber Congiu Explainer. What are Johnny's last words? He asks to speak to Ponyboy, and, leaning over him, Johnny's last words are "Stay gold, Ponyboy. Youba Clair Explainer. What does Nature's first green is gold mean? It also means that all good things are going to changeeventually, like people, seasons, and nature. Gold in thepoem represents youth.
Line one, "Natures First Green IsGold ," indicates nature's first green is youth, becauseevery living thing begins with youth. Florance Wieschermann Pundit. Why was Johnny's death so difficult for dally? He is a failure to himself. His answer is to let thesystem take him too. Dally can't accept Johnny'sdeath because Johnny is the one thing in the world that Dally cares about. Dally forces the police to killhim because of this.
Chahd Farfante Pundit. How did dally die in the outsiders? Moments later, they get a call from Dally : He hasrobbed a grocery store, and "the cops are after him. We gotta hidehim. He'll be at the lot in a minute. Amr Wurstlin Pundit. Why was it surprising that Cherry was attracted to dally? Cherry is the type of girl who likes 'bad boys'.
She is attracted to Dally because he is daring and bold andgets into trouble with the law - similar to her boyfriend BobSheldon. Bradly Atherstone Pundit. Why did dally break laws? When Ponyboy and Johnny get into trouble, it is Dally who helps them. Even though there are no real gangfights, only social issues between the Greasers and the Socs, Dally is "bitter" and breaking the law isallows him to avoid the real issues that surround him.
Johnny'sdeath is his " breaking -point. Benildo Reubel Pundit. Why do you think ponyboy was happy to realize that both he and Cherry saw the same sunsets? The greasers' lives were a struggle because they had no money and had difficult problems at home. Whydo you think Ponyboy was happy to realize that both he and Cherrysaw the same sunsets? It made him realize that theywere the same on the inside. Best Answer. It was surprising because Dally was a greaser.
Study guides. Q: Why was it surprising that Cherry was attracted to Dally? Write your answer Related questions. What did cherry see in dally? What surprising thing does cherry tell pony-boy about dally?
Why was it suprising that cherry was attracted to dally? What does dally call cherry at the theater? Why was it suprising for cherry to like dally? How could cherry be a problem for dally? Why is cherry afraid of loving dally? Who were the Greasers that are with Cherry and Marcia? Did Dally have a crush on Cherry? Why would a soc like Cherry be attracted to a Greaser like dally? How are cherry's and Johnny's view of Dally similar?
Why was it surprising that cheery liked dally in the outsiders? Why was cherry so mean to dally? Who does cherry valance like in the Outisders? Who is the spy dally tells pony about? Why was cherry so mean to dally according to pony boy? How would Cherry be a problem for Dally in the book The Outsiders? Who throws a coke at Dally's face? Who does cherry fall in love with? Why does cherry like dally? What did cherry do from the outsiders when Dally bought her a coke?
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